Thoughts on Kite Flippers

[Rorke]

What opinions do you guys have on kite flippers? (Meaning snatching good gear deals, then reselling the gear immediately to someone who is either too slow or doesn't know enough about where/how to find used gear.)

What irritates me the most is when packages get split up AND upcharged.
A common move by these shifty little shits is to take an '09 kite complete and mix it with an '07 kite complete. So people buy an '09 kite with an '07 bar or vice versa.

How are kite flippers helpful in our community? Do they have any value?

I think it is a pretty lowly and fairly shameful way to make a buck.

Why would a kiter not want to let other kiters get the good deal that they did?

To the guys who kite flip,
Is it worth the few bucks to act as a peddling, upcharging middleman? (Rhetorical)
What is your value? (not Rhetorical)


Peace out. It dumped last night

[anderson]

"I have never known much good done by those who affected to trade for the public good."
Adam Smith

[Artem]

I want to begin with saying I personally know you Rorke and I would say this to your face any day. This post of yours is a childish way of approaching things from your side. Its obvious who you were talking about so be a man and approach me and Henry and we talk it over like a couple of adults and not just post on a public forum about what your opinion is. Honestly, I don't give two shit about what you think anymore and here is why.

What opinions do you guys have on kite flippers? (Meaning snatching good gear deals, then reselling the gear immediately to someone who is either too slow or doesn't know enough about where/how to find used gear.

Kiteboarding is a very expensive sport which is very difficult to afford even for people with full time jobs. I'm a college kid that has tuition bills every month on top of car payments/gas/insurance/books. It's very difficult to get decent kiting gear with those kinds of expenses. This is why I "flip" kites. Its not a shameful way of making money. Take a look outside your narrow point of view and see that this is the way the world works. Even kite shops that are "respectable" get gear for much less then what they resell it for. Does this make them "shifty little shits" or "kite flippers"? It's not like I'm listing my gear for crazy high prices. All the kites that I sell are in perfect working shape that have lots of life left in them. Take a look at the kites which I have posted in the second hand section. They are all very reasonably priced and I would even say that they are cheaper then most of same model kites out there. So price wise, I'm not ripping anyone off when I sell kites at market value. I'm not ripping the person off that sold me the gear either because they set the price. Also I do my very best to satisfy all people that buy kites from me. If there is a problem, I always go out of my way to try make everyone happy. Many people are happy customers of mine, who would buy gear from me any day. So your argument here is very flawed.

What irritates me the most is when packages get split up AND upcharged.
A common move by these shifty little shits is to take an '09 kite complete and mix it with an '07 kite complete. So people buy an '09 kite with an '07 bar or vice versa.

Here, you are being a complete ignorant prick. The reason why sometimes I sell kites with older or newer bars is because not all kites come complete when they are sold to me. Complete packages are always worth more so I mix and match the kites and bars that I have which work together. I always include detailed pictures of my kites and bars so the buyer knows exactly what they are getting. Its a free market out there so you have to be a big boy and do your own research on what gear to buy. So I don't see any shiftiness about what I do.

I think it is a pretty lowly and fairly shameful way to make a buck.

This comment is just rude and uncalled for. This is your narrow minded view so if you don't plan on broadening your view, keep your big mouth shut.

How are kite flippers helpful in our community?

Yes, here are a couple of reasons:
1. There is a bigger market of used gear locally which means kiters can come and actually check out the gear before they buy it, to make them more comfortable with their decision.
2. There is more control over kiters that are starting out because if a kiter is a beginner, I take the time to explain to them that they should take lessons with Bob or Henry. If they have questions I take the time to completely answer all the questions even if it means setting up the kite completely and explaining every single detail to them. Its a lot better then letting people buy old crappy kites off ebay and try to learn on their own.
3. Believe it or not, me flipping kites actually benefits you because your kites don't depreciate in value as fast. It makes it so that kites hold their value better because if one person was selling a 2011 Cabrinha for $300 and another guy had the same kite but was trying to get $800, it would automatically hurt the value of the guy that's trying to get more for his kite.

Do they have any value?

1. Well, I'm what you call a "kite flipper" and I know that if I wasn't part of the kiting community more then couple of kiters would have either
A. Lost their kite
B. Lost their board
C. Lost their life

Kiteboarding is my life pretty much, it's what I live to do so I greatly value the sport of kiteboarding and the people that partake in it. I know many can back me up when I say this, I would always put my ass on the line for a fellow kiteboarder, even if it meant I had to risk my gear or my life. So you implying that I have no value is extremely rude and offensive.

Got something to say give me a call like an adult and we can talk 847-208-2759.

[noabacca]

[adseguy]

Firstly: YESSSSS, ENTERTAINMENT!!!

Secondly: I'll throw some gasoline I guess :P. You actually both have valid points, to which one is stronger is dependent on the consumer. They are providing a cheaper service. The drawback? You must do more research and you get lesser quality gear. Is this a bad scenario? I think not always. Are car "flippers" or house "flippers" doing a disservice? I don't think so necessarily. If we are talking about Henry or Artem, are they trying to make a quick buck.......YES....that's the whole point. Is this a negative by itself? No! I believe they are providing gear in a non-malicious way to people that can't afford another deal. Even if the two would buy a package deal and split it up for more.....then why isn't the reseller doing the same thing in the same markets. Middle men work well because they spend the time getting into different markets. Personally I don't see any issue with that.

One issue would be safety though. This, though, relies on the consumer in whole. You can spend the extra money and head to a shop with local knowledgeable people and too many this provides added value, but some wish to squeeze every last penny to their budget and so take the risks of buying themselves and using other free sources of knowledge. They are using their "time" as money in that sense. Personally I learned to not use the latter for a lot of situations, but again it's my choice. My point is you can't blame someone for providing a service as the sole responsibility relies on the consumer for making the purchase decision. I would only tend to agree with Rorke if the people you speak of are being malicious in some way.

[dbur]

"flippers" invest their time and capital in obtaining kites below the market, then checking gear out, making sure it is in working order, repairing and tuning it as needed... this is were the added values is. Like in any other business I'm sure they are probably taking loss once in awhile, and in fact considering ebay/paypal commissions their profits must be pretty low... Most of us can afford to buy new kites, but for someone in college this is not a shameful way to be able to afford some decent gear.

[Rorke]

Wow, some nice replies; a way, way personal retort; great pics; a quote I don't understand....

Artem,

Take it easy. I did not single anybody out. You are not the only one doing this.

Your offensive reply was, in fact, directed toward me. Thus, you have offended me publicly.

Moving on...

I like to think of the kite community as more of a brotherhood.
"Flipping" for profit doesn't seem very brotherly.

Rorke

PS -
You know, it's funny. A couple of hours after I posted here, another local, "Shopping Cart" told me he had 2 Rev's, 9&11, complete that he got for $500 last year from a bro. He used them a few times, and he'd sell them to me for $400. Pretty brotherly offer I'd say.

[slingsnot]

If you don't like kite flippers, don't buy from them. The free market will take care of itself.

Personally, I have benefitted from purchasing gear from Henry. I'd much rather buy from a local person who has vetted the gear, and will let me demo it. Our local flippers should be allowed to make a profit as a result of their efforts. I've been a broke-ass college student before, and I applaud the hustle and entrepreneurial spirit. Beats "flipping" burgers.

Again, if there's no demand, or the product quality is poor, the kite flipping business will reconcile...

Regards,

Joel
312.953.8706 p

[Jimbo]

Kudos to the kite flippers and to the free enterprise economy!

[Northerner]

As a die hard Log Cabin Republican I also support free Enterprise and encourage ridiculously low tax rates on job creators like Mitt Rommey. It's established knowledge that Mitt and most wealthy people demand a minimum of 47 water heaters per home. No middle class person would ever have that many water heaters so giving the middle class a 15 % tax rate on income earned would never help the water heater industry and the fine people that build them. This makes Mitt a perfect example of being a job creator, remember his wife drives a couple of Cadillac's. Most middle class folks would do something stupid like invest the money saved from such a low tax rate overseas into high yield economies and industries or different hedge funds, instead of buying dozens of water heaters built in the U.S of A

As for kite flippers I would say they are offering a service and people buying should do alittle home work and ask question before buying, maybe on a online forum of sorts.

Only only issue I have with people trying to make money off of kiting is people teaching lessons that aren't ready to to teach because of their riding level (way to green) or haven't but in effort, time and investment to do things right and safe. This includes having a success full functioning curriculum, radio communications or jet ski support and knowing which local spot and where in the spot will really be the best for the student and other kiters on the water and at the beach.

[mrgrey]

I am A new guy and bought used gear. Henry L. was kind enough to even offer to look at gear I was interested in purchasing from someone else just to be helpful. I would recommend him for used equipment and not lump him in to some kind of a vulture capitalist kite flipper. Ride Safe!

[novice]

I'll 2nd MrGrey,

I was a first time purchaser. Henry helped me search used equipment sold by others, and ultimately encouraged me to purchase a trainer kite and a new 9/13M from another vendor.

[snowball]

thanks for the kind words guys glad you enjoyed the gear bought from me.

If anyone is interested i have a very nice comfortable and supportive mystic waist/seat harness size medium for sale $75

ps if anyone has old gear they would like to sell message me. Thx

[Rorke]

"Thoughts on Kite Flipping" would have been a better title.

If other services of value are provided, then that isn't the flipping I am talking about.
Lessons, repair, consultation - those are great!

My meaning is adding no other service and boosting the price.
Also, I am not questioning whether this should be "allowed" or the legality of it. Of course people should be free to do what they want.

If guys want to buy their gear from a guy who just bought it for less the week prior, meh.

If guys want to sell their gear to somebody who is going to flip it, I encourage these sellers to get it directly to a kiter who could use a deal.
(Contrary to a previous post, there are plenty of bros who could use it.)

Gotta shralp gnar.

[FSP]

Why should you care so much??? You dont just pay a premium on everything you buy, so why so hung up? If it was not stolen and fully disclosed then who cares what a flippers purchase price was? Fact is, someone out there wants it at the price they just found it at, so free enterprise works. Many people including myself got into kiting asking questions, investigating the equipment etc...and at times i needed a break to get gear so wish there was more peddling back then to choose from. If your not going to due diligence, then the laws of Darwin will do it for you, so flip on flippers and find me North 14m Rebel at a good price with i dont care what kind of bar deal!

[West]

Half pound burger, quarter pound cheese, and all the fries you can eat for $3.69, with a Pepsi $4.54 and free refills on that!!!!!!!! My college job at GM Steakhouse on the "drag" in Austin next to the UT campus.......met Southern cuties, ate all the beef I could handle, and bought 2 Naish Hawaii windsurfers with my hard earned cash.......Flipping burgers ain't that bad Captain!!!!!!

As for kite flipping.....as long as the experienced kiter ain't taking advantage of the inexperienced kiter, charge what you will. As with most used markets, it is buyer beware, but I got a problem with a knowledgable kiter selling gear to a newbie that just ain't quite RIGHT: like a kite with leaking bladders, or a bar that is not set-up for the kite it is paired with.....not all kites rig up properly on all bars, this much we all know. If you are going to sell a mismatched bar with a kite, you should know that it will safely and correctly "FLY" that kite; otherwise you are setting someone up for a mishap...know what you are selling, and know that it is safe for others to use!!

And yes Rorke, there are still those out there who will sell to other kiters at a discount, and a few who will simply pass their gear on to a bro to keep 'em on the water.....those are the benefits of friendships; however, there is also the opportunity for some to benefit from helping others find gear, and they deserve to profit for the service they provide..........recognize the difference buddy!!!!!!!!!