Which Kiteboarding Camp?

[Tommy1005]

Hey,

I've been kiteboarding on and off for about 4 years now (in lake michigan). I know the basic skills, I've done plenty of body dragging and kite flying, but I hardly ever have a chance to really go out and practice kiteboarding mainly due to whenever I have a chance there is no wind, or the waves are too big. I usually get a chance to go 1-2 times a year, and I usually spend most of the time bringing myself up to speed and re-learning a lot of the basics.

I really just want to get to the point where I can set up my kite any day of the summer (weather permitting) and go riding for a few hours without having to spend half the time trying to get my kite out of the water. I would also really like to learn how to ride up wind so I don't need to walk all the way back up the beach every time I land.


Can anyone recommend a good kiteboarding camp to attend? I know there's a bunch of camps in San Padre TX and then there's the camp in North Carolina (real water sports). Has anyone had any experience with these? Or could anyone make a recommendation on a good camp they have had experience with?

Thanks for the help!

[urjc22]

I would go to Kite Club in Cabarete. The wind will blow everyday there in the Summer and you will be up and riding in no-time. If too expensive for travel, then Hatteras or Texas are good. Real is somewhat expensive though.

[West]

There are several qualified instructors in area.....Bob in Madison, Chris at Sharkless, Mac crew in Grand Haven, Roberto in Muskegon, and Lino in Chicago.......

As for the kiting camp......Amanda is taking a group up to Tawas, Michigan next weekend June 10th I believe.....she posts under LIKE TO KITE.......just a little info for you...

[hammer]

Ultimate Tawas Point Camps are in full swing here in East Tawas, MI and we cater them around your background, we don't bore you, we teach you to ride. All of our instructors are PASA certified, we're a PASA certified and insured school, all school gear is 2011 and the best gear available to learn to kite. We are situated right on the water at Jerry's Marina just prior to reaching Tawas Point, you have to pass our shop to get to the beach, we carry tons of kite/SUP gear including clothing and accessories by the best brands in the industry. Get in touch with us!

[Like To Kite]

Thanks for mentioning the local options West! There are many opportunities to improve both near and far.

Getting ready for another awesome trip to Tawas. In my opinion, one the the best spots in the world to progress because of the flat and shallow water there. Just want to let everyone know, the next planned dates are actually June 16th through the 20th.

Here's a link for all the info:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10007

Thanks and hope to see you there!

[4w7s]

If you're thinking about a camp in Tawas, Michigan - Mark Kuban/Motor City Kiteboarding is the man - not many know the spot better than he.

I've had the pleasure of knowing and riding with Mark since "graduating" along with him 8+ years ago from our PASA cert course with the master Chris Moore at Kitty Hawk Kites in the OBX.

Mark is the consumate professional, and along with being a class family man, he has been involved with the kiting and waterports industry for a long, long time. You can't get better in terms of dedication, experience, integrity, knowledge and gear.

[West]

As with any sport where you are taking lessons, it is always nice to have local support when you return to your kiting area. That is the reason I always advocate taking lessons from a local instructor, because after the lessons are done, they are still a valuable resource to you (not via e-mail, but on the beach).......nice to be able to take lessons from someone who kites at your local beach, someone that you can still tap for knowledge and help, as you progress as a kiter!!!!

That is what is so cool about the trips to Hatteras by the Madison crew.....they could take lessons from Real while out there and that would probably work out well.....but they take lessons from Kiteriders, and when they return to the Chicago area, Bob and Jens are still availabe to give them advice and help.....seems like a winning system to me....support your local kite schools, instuctors, and shops; it'll pay off huge dividends in the LONG RUN!!!!

Roberto, I am sure Mark has a great school, thanks for pointing out that option....I just don't view him as being local (from the Chicago area)...Muskegon and Madison are the limits on the iwindsurf map for Chicago area, bout 3 hour drives!!!!! That is why I made no mention of him in my earlier post.....

It's nice to have sooooo many options for lessons....thanks to all who help educate beginning kiters!!! Happy Kiting.....

[4w7s]

I'm not really sure what the intention of those comments really are but sorry, that sounds like a bunch of malarkey to me. Just my opinion. The concept sounds more like cronyism and nepotistism than anything... and It seems like you are saying that being taught by a non-Chicago instructor will retard the learning curve for some reason....my bad if I'm reading this incorrectly. I mean seriously, should the fact that this thread is posted on the CKF limit people's options and influence them not to go to SPI, FL, OBX, Hurgurda, Viet Nam, etc...The OP is looking for a good kiting camp experience. The truth is Chicago area instruction options and weather opportunities are pretty limited by comparison to what you will get if you can travel somewhere.

Over 10 years ago I took lesson in the Gorge and in Costa Rica. Surely my instructors did not follow me around (nor did I feel I needed them to) like shepards tending their flock after I returned to the Chicago area to continue on my own , thrashing about in Lake Michigan, often driving every weekend from the North Shore to WI, IN, or MI to pay my dues. I never felt like I was at a loss not having my instructors around...this is what they trained me for - to be self sufficient and to have enough knowledge and skill to thrash around a bit on my own (SAFELY) as I rode up the learning curve...and back then the learning curve was much longer and steeper as you well know.

LOTS of people take lessons in the OBX and go home to kite without their instructors. The same can be said about many other places where people go specifically for kite instruction. I've taught all over the world and most of my students were NOT local and assuming I gave them proper instruction for a few days they were fine on their own, or with the companionship of other kiters.

Sure, I think it might seem warm and fuzzy to have your instructor at the same beach your ride at...but in reality I think it's an illusion at best, because even when that is the case, my guess is that personal schedules and riding location choices separate the student from the instructor pretty quickly...and I am speaking from my own experience of teaching 100's of lessons, often in the same spots year after year. More "after-lesson" support usually comes from other generous riders in the kite community, whether you are at home or abroad.

Getting a good set of lessons is the individuals first own RESPONSIBILITY. If the instructor did a good job where the student is not a liability to himself or others most local riders are happy to take him under their wing...isn't that how the sport is supposed to work? oops, Maybe I've been bumped on the head a few too many times.

And to be quite honest there seems to be a slight tint of contradiction and hypocrisy in the concept of dragging a crew of students to a spot for a weekend that has been well established and pioneered by other schools or instructors, not to include adding to potential congestion of a small area...again, maybe I must have hit my head on the sand once too often.

I said it before and I'll say it again...if anyone is planning a trip to Tawas they have access to an excellent TAWAS BASED instructor (who happens to be well seasoned and has enormous experience) stationed there any day of the week and they don't have to plan on a specific weekend junket planned by outside instructors.

[adseguy]

What

The

Fuck

[IVO]

again, maybe I must have hit my head on the sand once too often.

Agree with you 100%



That must be terrible idea to travel to Tawas for the weekend with students and bunch of friends for riding and good times where are other kiters and well established instructors in the area already

ehh,uhhhh,,,isnt this kinda how all areas are?

[4w7s]

glad you agree

...and there's a thin line between naivety and delusion

wtf????

[WaWaZat]

Hey,

I've been kiteboarding on and off for about 4 years now (in lake michigan). I know the basic skills, I've done plenty of body dragging and kite flying, but I hardly ever have a chance to really go out and practice kiteboarding mainly due to whenever I have a chance there is no wind, or the waves are too big. I usually get a chance to go 1-2 times a year, and I usually spend most of the time bringing myself up to speed and re-learning a lot of the basics.

I really just want to get to the point where I can set up my kite any day of the summer (weather permitting) and go riding for a few hours without having to spend half the time trying to get my kite out of the water. I would also really like to learn how to ride up wind so I don't need to walk all the way back up the beach every time I land.


Can anyone recommend a good kiteboarding camp to attend? I know there's a bunch of camps in San Padre TX and then there's the camp in North Carolina (real water sports). Has anyone had any experience with these? Or could anyone make a recommendation on a good camp they have had experience with?

Thanks for the help!

Hey Tommy... welcome to the forum! We made the Tawas trip 3 times last summer and kited on all of them. Tawas is a pretty amazing place and relatively speaking, pretty close to home! http://maps.google.com/maps?client=safari&rls=en&q=tawas+point&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x882728566d9b17b5:0x59d244ca61c2926f,Tawas+Point&gl=us&ei=o7jtTb_GJaLd0QHgv6mNCA&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBoQ8gEwAA

We launch on the lake side or the bay side depending on wind direction... just a nice walk apart. The bay is full of about waist deep water and great for honing your chops. If you want to speed up the learning curve, you can choose to employ an instructor for some coached riding and the local guys... Mark from MCK & Brian from GLK... as well as Amanda from our crew are all qualified and great people!

Us in the Chi crew camp in the state park at reasonable state park rates. The state park is adjacent to the launch... ya can't get closer accommodations! It's also a great opp to get together and kite, cook & camp with some new friends!

[West]

The Tawas area looks great for kiting. It's nice to have the opportunity to take lessons at that wonderful riding area....to all that travel there: KITE SAFELY, BE HELPFUL AND FRIENDLY!!! A good mantra for anywhere you kite: you will always be a welcomed visitor.

I strongly advise beginning kiters to take lessons. Whenever possible, I advocate utilizing a qualified "local" instructor, who will continue to be a resource long after the initial lessons are completed. If you don't see the merit in this, then I respect that Roberto; after all you are the instructor, with far more experience than I in this area .......and the truth of the matter is: this is America, and you are FREE to express your opinions to anyone who is willing to listen......

HAPPY KITING to all; and to all warm South winds, and cold, cold Northerlies!!!!!!!!!

[WaWaZat]

KITE SAFELY, BE HELPFUL AND FRIENDLY!!!

Actually, I forgot to add that in my above post.... that is always the theme of our Tawas trips! Tommy, not clear if you're up and riding... but if you are, come on out and ride with our group. If not this time there will be 2/3 others opps with us this summer. Everybody is always helpful & friendly and as long as conditions cooperate, you're sure to get the practice in you seem to be looking for. And kiting with this group, there are always pointers offered if you're open to them. If you're not up & riding, maybe opt for a lesson to get you there quicker. Like I said before, plenty of options for pro instruction on the trip too.

Now let the wind dances commence!!

[4w7s]

I strongly advise beginning kiters to take lessons. Whenever possible, I advocate utilizing a qualified "local" instructor, who will continue to be a resource long after the initial lessons are completed. If you don't see the merit in this, then I respect that Roberto; after all you are the instructor, with far more experience than I in this area .......and the truth of the matter is: this is America, and you are FREE to express your opinions to anyone who is willing to listen......

Just to clarify, and not feel like words were put into my mouth - Using a local instructor - absolutely! Travelling 6 hrs to a small spot and teaching in the back yard of other "local instructors" schools without direct collaboration with them is a very different thing.

I'm sure everybody functions off of a different set of principles, but I think that at Tawas there are already enough instructors there to service visitors. Those instructors and shops have a significant effort and investment into their presence at this location. It's hard to compare Tawas to places like SPI, OBX, the Keys, and other places where the expanse of the teaching area is rather wide. But even there it's not "politically correct" to encroach on them.

Also, it was these local schools who built the bridges with the Michigan DNR to make teaching possible there and to help maintian access for other kiters. I would hope people would be more sensitive to that and not feel so totally unihibited about rolling in with their own program.

Yes, America is the land of the "free" but hopefuly there is still some mutual respect involved in our personal choices and decisions too. What if all the instructors in the Midwest decided they are taking there students 400 miles over to Tawas?...sorry, it just doesn't seem right (to me at least). Perhaps there is no law saying you cannot do this, but I still believe there is principle and ethics at issue.

[adseguy]

What a fun discussion this has become! I get a kick when you like to borrow bigger words then what you are really using them for. Cronyism....really. We aren't some type of hierarchical government here with powers above others. Please refrain from using words that just make you look like you've hit the sand (or rocks IMO ) too many times. Ok sorry, that kind of was an attack, but it shocked me to see that word in a kitesurfing forum

In any case. My two cents: I can't agree with your views on the topic as a whole here. I can understand some people set-up shop on PUBLIC waters and feel encroached upon (although so far you seem to be the only one) when another person uses the same beach who are not local to teach. However, all I see is a better business model not an ethics problem. Amanda and others choose to move around locations to best suit their customers. Great! It's your fault if you setup shop and expect that people will use your services at a PUBLIC beach. It's not about respect as much as it IS about having that public water. The water was free FIRST...not the business. No ethics can possibly be involved when all actions within the business were done knowing beforehand that the water is still public.

Jetski rental companies don't get mad or think it's unethical when someone uses the same launch and same buoy line as they do for their own personal jetski. Sometimes the rental companies clean up/take care of the launch and buoys. As long as it's public...it's public.

I'm not trying to ease the above message by saying this but, I'm glad to see you back on the forums. You have good insight quite often, but not this time IMO

[WaWaZat]

Poor Tommy.... will he ever kite again???

[4w7s]

OK, never mind.
Yeah, you're right, nobody owns it and it's public land and water (actually operated by the state parks), so who cares?
I think I'll start organizing teaching trips over there too.
It'll be really cool to see how many students we can fit into the water there.

Sorry if my choice of words seemed inappropriate to you, but I think it still applies well - perhaps not in the limited political sense you refer too, but it is a term that can be properly used in social, religious, commercial, and political contexts...but maybe you can suggest a more suitable alternative.
e.g.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cronyism is partiality to long-standing friends, especially by appointing them to positions of authority, regardless of their qualifications. Hence, cronyism is contrary in practice and principle to meritocracy.

Cronyism exists when the appointer and the beneficiary are in social contact; often, the appointer is inadequate to hold his or her own job or position of authority, and for this reason the appointer appoints individuals who will not try to weaken him or her, or express views contrary to those of the appointer. Politically, "cronyism" is derogatorily used...etc, etc

I'll try run all future messages thru you for an edit in the future.

Tawas does have shallow water, which is good and also potentially dangerous. Water levels have been down earlier in the season and have come up slightly. In the case of this location the local instructors are inarguably the most knowledgable about potential hazards and how to most responsibly manage risks for the student. And although this is a "public" facility the coexistence of kiters with the public authority is always a sensitive one. If I were setting up a shop there I am sure that sharing the stewardship of this place would be big part of the deal, so I feel those guys do have some unspoken rights and to say "Great! It's your fault if you setup shop and expect that people will use your services at a PUBLIC beach" is grossly oversimplifying, and Adrien I must say it's disappointing to hear you say that. (ok to be more accurate "to see you've written that"). IMO it's "free for all" attitudes that have brought about a lot of bans.

Never the less, The OP knows (even before he got on the forum) that there are a number of choices out there and he can make his own decision on what's appropriate or "meretitious", or what works out for his schedule, etc. Since this thread got side tracked by my comments and issues I've raised I'll conclude by saying that a kite camp in the right place with the right conditions is an awesome learning experience with the right instructor/program. The commitment and costs to participate might seem high but the the learning curve usually improves dramatically. Another major factor is having the right weather conditions, but that's always the case with this sport. Some spots have more predicatable winds than others, but you can get skunked almost anywhere too. Tommy, good luck with your decisions and pursuit of lessons. Once you get over a few basic hurdles you should be able to set-up and ride as easily as anyone else.

PS...My original message was simply to endorse a good instructor at Tawas. I apologize to the entire forum if an inappropriate discussion of principles ensued. If Tommy1005 wants to contact me directly for other lesson info he is welcome to do so. Just send me an email at rvillate@msn.com

[West]

Wow......at least you finally let the cat out of the bag.....that was where you were coming from....I was wondering!!!!!!

[4w7s]

Wow......at least you finally let the cat out of the bag.....that was where you were coming from....I was wondering!!!!!!

I'm not really sure what that means to be honest, maybe you can explain (seriously)??? I'm not good at understanding cryptic comments, and I'm not really sure I understand your PM either, and no reason to PM me with your thoughts, just bring it out on the table,

Tawas Topic
Sent: Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:54 am
From: West
To: 4w7s

What a bummer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Have the decency to pm Amanda, if that was where you were going with that.........you owe her an apology, my friend.........I hope you can at least realize that..............

you talk about ethics.....where the hell are your manners??????

so with respect to your message:
West, you seem to have a penchant for putting words and thoughts into my mouth. I never once mentioned Amanda's name (or anyone else's name other than Mark Kuban - which some might say I'm endorsing my own competition) nor did I say anything about Amanda's qualifications. My opinion about this matter is not about her nor directed at her nor anyone else specifically. Since you feel I owe her an aplogy please show me specifically where I said anything indecent toward her. My comments address the fundamental principle of the issue. I have tried very hard to be clear, but If it wasn't clear before this is essentially it: Shipping in students to a fairly small spot that already has an abundance of instructors who own shops, who have been there for many years, in a teaching area that already has crowding issues is, in my opinion, a very touchy subject. Maybe I should have just left people guessing and swap my original reply with one word - "Bogus" - and let you figure out what I'm really trying to say.

I'm sorry if anyone is offended by my opinion on this, but I still feel that the local instructors at Tawas, or the local instructors in Chicago or anywhere else for that matter, deserve mutual respect from other instructors as well as the respect of the kiting community when it comes to these issues. I have to say I'm a bit surprised that very few people seem to understand it. Nobody has to agree with my opinion obviously, and maybe nobody does. Amanda is free to do whatever she wants. I reckon if I thought all people did agree I would not waste my time trying to explain it from the perspective of someone who has taught for 8+ years for several schools, as well as independently, in a lot of different places.

It's blowing hard here again today and some bump, so I'll give it lots more thought while we're out on the water....right