Friday 5.14 MILLER

Kitesurfing or snowkiting...if the wind's blowin'...where you goin?

Moderators: Misfit, adseguy, Pier, Bob, kris, IVO, skysurfr, West

Postby adseguy » Sat May 15, 2010 9:23 am

jensmadwind wrote:if you can't body drag back to your board, let alone two of them, then you are obviously in over your head(pun intended)


I agree. You shouldn't be on the board until you can consistently go upwind body dragging.

I didn't go kiting because of the big variance and it was slightly off-shore at Miller. If I had known people were actually going to go I would have suggested MC for you guys. Much cleaner and safer over there. :shock:
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Postby kitenick » Sat May 15, 2010 9:58 am

Guys,

A question and a sugestion:

1. I read a note above that people are f***ing with cars at Miller. Is this true?

2. Buy a key ring, put a spare car door key on it, and attach it to your harness. Put a Hide a key well under your car. This way you always keep your car door locked and the worst case, if yo loose your harness key, is that you have crawl far under your car. The key on the rear tire trick it old and too predictable.

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Postby dewsy » Sat May 15, 2010 4:48 pm

ironben - we saw you out there..

first, if you're not feeling comfortable enough with your skills, don't go out further than you feel you should.. (i learned this one too)

second, ask people what the conditions are, anyone who was up or had been on the water would have told you the wind is really on and off..

third, the reason we didn't send a rescue party is because your kite was in the air during the duration of your swim.. how do you rescue someone who has their kite in the air.. if your kite had been down and stayed there, you can be sure that we would have acted on that..

I know it doesn't really matter coming from me cause I have only been at this for 10 months or so, but just let someone know you're working on learning..

Make sure you come out with us again when the conditions are better, you'll have a good time, and we'll all laugh about it in time..

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Postby ironben » Sat May 15, 2010 6:44 pm

First able- Nobody blames nobody!
I just surprised to see such conduct, that is all. I coming from many types of sports and in most occasions you don't even ask for help is being offer to you . I been many times on the beach seeing others getting boards and pushing them in direction of a rider or downwind of him.
I can't speak for the other guy who lost one board and try to use the other to get to first one, but I can't tell you I try everything I know to get back to my board, but after a 30 min of body dragging I knew something is not right, so I went to the beach hopping to swim and get my board. Now I know that it was dumb because I lost the visual contact with that board.
In all of it what is making me mad is that some of you pass by my many time during 30 min and not even ones someone ask or offer anything.
If showing little consideration for less experience is too much to ask for?
is retrieving a board makes you my board caddy?
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Postby Bob » Sat May 15, 2010 8:26 pm

ben,

if I had been there and seen you not riding for a while I would have assumed you lost your board and stopped by to ask and then comb the area for you trying to find your board. Even if you were way way downwind. I do it all the time.

however, I would not have been caught dead riding where all you guys were and this is my 10th season riding. I'm such a pussy though that i won't even ride in side offshore in the beginner/expert friendly Madison lakes where I can see all shorlines. A least everyone is safe and you'll all know better next time...I hope.

First mistake was anyone riding in side offshore winds especially on lake Michigan. Come on guys.

Second mistake was the guys not paying attention to you and asking if you needed help or lost a board. board retrieval can be fun.

See that little bugger on the water, pick it off while still on a plane, throw a forward or backroll and drop it off for the rider. Woo hoo.

keep the stoke...ride safe...drink beer.
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Postby ironben » Sat May 15, 2010 11:44 pm

Tx Bob!
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A word from "the other guy"

Postby xwindsurf » Sun May 16, 2010 4:59 am

Guys,
Yes, I lost two board on that day. Also, I found three - 2 of my own, and one Door belonging to ironben - I'm surprised he didn't mention it on the forum, he looked way upwind compared to where it washed ashore. I guess he expressed his gratitude by becoming my advocate on this forum :twisted:
But I think I can express myself more clearly that he did on my behalf.

1. Thank for all your words of wisdom regarding sketchy conditions, the sometimes-offshore wind, the overall conditions being unsuitable for beginners, etc. I will be more watchful next time.

2. Also, thank you, Ivo, for taking my bag from the beach. True, my car key was in it - but how would you know? And if you left it, chances are that my wallet, Blackberry, and possibly two kites would be stolen from the car - so nothing but gratitude for that.

3. Let me tell you that I didn't expect anyone to fetch my board for me, unless they happen to ride just by it - so whatever bitter words in that regard have been spoken, this is not my thinking. I certainly can take blame for my own screw-ups.

4. For those of you guys who saw me way downwind - believe me or not, it was by design. I can stay upwind pretty well, I just had this idea - somewhat unrealistic, as it turned out - to do a downwinder while looking for the board. In a way, it worked out - from where I landed, it was a short walk downwind to the place where I first saw ironben's board, and then mine (one of the two, the second one washed way down, in the Ogden Dunes subdivision, much later).

5. I am relatively new to this sport but my nick stands for something - I have 10 years of windsurfing behind me. I sailed in 15-foot waves, survived 3 hours in cold water in my rashguard after my boom broke far from the shore, and rescued myself in conditions that were downright crazy compared to what we had on Miller on Friday. It doesn't make me disaster-proof but I can make in ashore, and a few years of competitive swimming many years ago still helps. And I don't mind taking a bit of self-abuse if I can learn in the process. I think knowing your limit comes in many shapes and forms, and one's technical abilities in only one aspect of it.

See you on the beach, hopefully in more auspicious circumstances
Last edited by xwindsurf on Sun May 16, 2010 11:09 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby schuss8899 » Sun May 16, 2010 11:04 am

There is a maritime code that we all should live by, and that is a person on the water and in trouble is everyones concern. We have all been there to one degree or another on the big lake when problems arise. Depending on a lot of different circumstances the situations can deteriorate quickly.

We only hurt ourselves and the sport when we do not take care of our brother regardless who is at fault on the water. The more experienced have to shoulder this burden and provide whatever skills are necessary to minimize the damage. Especially in what would be considered hazardous conditions i.e. cold temperatures or out of control type conditions.

Kiting has a greater downside than other watersports in the event of a mishap. When a mishap occurs you are usually in an arduous position of expending a great deal of energy to put things right. Other kiters can greatly reduce the distress by performing simple clean up procedures.
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Postby jensmadwind » Sun May 16, 2010 11:31 am

You want the experienced to shoulder the burden of the inexperienced obvious bad judgment? The only thing the experienced did wrong was let these guys go on the water without recommending otherwise.

I will say again, if you can't body drag to retrieve your board, you are jumping a step or two in the learning process. Going out without that skill makes you a liability to yourself and the other kiters. Sounds like you should revert back to that step.

This is a serious sport and nobody wants to babysit. I may sound cold but that is the reality of it.
10 mph?
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Postby schuss8899 » Sun May 16, 2010 1:00 pm

Sorting out the shortcomings of judgement should be secondary when someone is in harms way. The rewards are far greater rising to the situation than ignoring someone down and in distress. Your selflessness will come back to you ten-fold.
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Postby STF » Sun May 16, 2010 3:27 pm

this is a great post and a nice long read :?


so just wanted to chime in and say.............

even with all the experience in the world there will be conditions (currents, waves, etc) that will prevent you from body dragging back to your board.

Shit happens sometimes, even to the pros.

more then one time in the last 9 years of kiteboarding ive had problems retrieving my board after losing it.

I was at waukegan a few weeks ago and retrieved (after keeping an eye on a watching said kiteboaders attempts) 2 boards for 2 different people. they tried to get there boards and couldnt that day and at that time. I scooped up the 2 boards busted a huge jump, juggled all 3 boards before landing and dropped them off at the beach to the guys who had body dragged back to shore. And all was good.

Point being, Ill help out like that when ever i see it and even the best among us can have a day where the conditions or whatever give us problems body dragging back to our boards....no biggie.

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Postby jensmadwind » Mon May 17, 2010 6:59 am

"your selflessness well come back ten fold"

been kiting for almost a decade, still waiting for that to happen

people coming to the beach without having there sh-t together is selfish

once again if somebody is in real distress it is a no brainer to do whatever you can( without making the situation worse) to help them.

If your just bobbin around retrieving your board, then I am going to let you learn a lesson.

sounds like a broken record but if you can't body drag to retrieve your board you are in conditions that you can not handle.

no way to sugar coat it, use your head when evaluating conditions, DON'T BE A LIABILITY
10 mph?
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Postby dewsy » Mon May 17, 2010 7:20 am

jens - EXACTLY

if you're toolin around out there in the water with no board, and your kite's in the air, we'll keep an eye on you but let you save yourself.. kite goes down and no relaunch, different story..

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Postby schuss8899 » Mon May 17, 2010 2:38 pm

Geez, jens, why you got to be that way...? No one is asking you to pump their bladders, if someone is drowning and your in the neighborhood, take the time to pull his mellon out of the surf....next time I see ya I am going to give you a hug.
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