Montrose 2014.

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Montrose 2014.

Post by skysurfr » Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:20 pm

Here we are in March and here comes another season at Montrose Beach.

I will be retiring from my Mother Goose position at Montrose as I stated in the fall.

Paul will take over from here and be supported by the usual crew of regulars.

Here's an interesting issue.... there may be no beach to use at all. Will all this snow and the lake frozen over, the water level may rise over 1 foot.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/ ... /140309851#

As it melts, you may want to keep an eye on it. If the beach is looking a little "wet", I'd hit up the city for some sand while they have the front end loaders grooming the beaches.

Mike
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Re: Montrose 2014.

Post by kitekid21 » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:11 pm

Shallow, flat water at Montrose could make for a great training ground for unhooked stuff! And it might keep beachgoers away too!
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Re: Montrose 2014.

Post by ens137 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:01 pm

Anyone in the Chicago area able to do certifications needed for Montrose? I know certain people that have done them over the past few years have left and I was wondering if anyone can fill that gap? Just trying to play by Montrose rules

I got skunked my last day in OBX when I was set to get certified...

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Re: Montrose 2014.

Post by zulutimer » Fri May 30, 2014 1:44 pm

RULE: IKO Card AND Streamer required to ride at Montrose. PERIOD


Montrose is a regulated beach monitored by lifeguards, Chicago Park District AND designated kitesurfers, Paul, Adrien and Mike Urban.

Every time Spring rolls around we inevitably have to deal with this issue and frankly, after 10 years, its quite rude, selfish and disrespectful of those who choose to ignore the Rules.
Thanks to a few of you who yesterday deliberately flaunted the rules we are again forced to confront this issue. Its not worth our time and effort as kitesurf monitors to have to engage in arguments every time someone shows up without a Streamer who somehow thinks they can turn the argument into us being the assholes. We're there to ride and have fun too!

YES, in the last 3 weeks I have been called asshole more than once for calling people out who don't have streamers. The first time it occurred I called was an asshole for not being nice about it.
REALLY? After 10 years of being NICE on this website with comment, debate, instruction, guidelines etc. do I have to be nice at the beach to someone who obviously knows the rules and is deliberately ignoring them? Exactly who is the presumed asshole in this setting?

Yesterday 3 riders show up without streamers but maybe? had IKO cards? I am not sure but it didn't matter. I waved off the female (girl, woman or lady would be too generous after her behavior) for not having a Streamer, which immediately sent her off into a non stop tirade off insulting argument. Yes, once again I was called an asshole. There is no reasoning with a person who will not even pause to listen to you, but rather continues yelling and screaming over your words. We, the kitesurfer monitors, have had enough of being asked who we are and what business we have to stop one from kiting. This female was so belligerent that she talked herself right out of getting a streamer from Adrien with proof of an IKO card. She just could not muster any respect for the system or those trying to enforce.

KITESURFER MONITORS at Montrose have say in your kiting whether you like it or not. Actually, any kiter has the ability to speak up and complain about another's ability or qualification to kite at Montrose; the difference is that the monitors have accepted the undesirable task of affirmatively taking action and doing what others know should be done. The agreement with the City obligates us to work on enforcing the rules so that lifeguards don't have to. Every year however we have to deal with non-Streamer riders questioning us.
That female rider who disregarded us and again headed toward the water had her board taken away and held by the lifeguards until she was ready to leave.
YES, monitors have the full support of the lifeguards.
YES, the lifeguards know us and will respect what we recommend.
YES, lifeguards will call out any riders without a Streamer and anyone with a Streamer who has problems riding within the rules.

The time for niceties is before you go to Montrose, like this website. After 10 years of trying to drill into peoples heads, ad nauseum, the requirements, we still have to deal with ignorance on the rules. Whether that lack of knowledge is real, feigned, deliberate disregard, flaunting or selfish, the reasons for not complying don't matter. A kind and pleasant encounter at the beach will be attempted, but should not be expected. After all these years it is obvious that anyone coming to Montrose without a streamer is knowingly wrong from the start.
You need an IKO card to get a streamer and you need a streamer to ride at Montrose. PERIOD.

Please remember though that the streamer still doesn't mean you're permanently set to go at Montrose. An IKO card doesn't mean you can capably ride Montrose. If you display an inability to ride at Montrose due to conditions of wind, water, waves, current or inappropriate equipment, or disregard the rules about staying upwind and away from the shoreline and beachgoers, then you may be called out of the water and could lose your streamer!

For the 10th year in a row once again please note and accept that Montrose is a local beach like no other in that there are specific rules and regulations to follow ESPECIALLY during the beach season. Its the ONLY city beach we are allowed to ride at as long as we follow the rules. If you don't like it or can't handle it, then you can go elsewhere; north or south of Chicago has plenty to offer. There now, wasn't that NICE?

Paul
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Re: Montrose 2014.

Post by JRRB » Sat May 31, 2014 2:16 pm

Paul,
As someone who plans on taking advantage of the right to kite at Montrose, hopefully soon, I just want to re-assure you that your efforts are appreciated. The rules are I place so that no one gets hurt or dies. I don't mean to be overly dramatic, but people die on Lake Michigan every year, and people die on the river every single year because they don't respect it. Keeping stupid people out of the water is absolutely necessary. If making sure no one dies means means you're being an asshole, then thank you for being an asshole.
If the city cracks down on it, and I don't get to kite there, I'll be pissed and I'm sure a lot of other people will be pissed too. Fuck-em! Don't feel bad for a second.
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Re: Montrose 2014.

Post by hydraulicmichal » Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:45 pm

I'm new to Chicago - glad you guys are the "real" hearos of the beach - not just Hasselhoffs dashing in the sand. Where can I find more detailed info on kiter times and / or restrixions? Oh whait, I found them! Do you have a shout doun time?

Thanks!

Michal

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Re: Montrose 2014.

Post by adseguy » Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:49 pm

I think the biggest take away from the whole situation that happened on Thursday(?) with the female (Anna) is that we need to stick together AND everyone should get involved. Every streamer I give out I make a big point in saying that this comes with responsibility. You are a part of a group of people that hold this beach together. Always back each other up and be PRO-active in getting people squared away to the streamer system. We all know it sucks to have to talk to someone who just wants to kite and tell them to put it down, but, like Paul said, the reality is, it must be done. Everyone that has a streamer needs to be a leader. Don't sit on the sidelines and hope someone else takes care of it. If the beach gets shutdown for some reason, then everyone is responsible for that.

Everyone else that was riding though, I'm super happy to see it going well so far this season. We'll always have hiccups, but if we all band together we can keep having those days that we all look forward to.
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Re: Montrose 2014.

Post by xwindsurf » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:36 pm

Dear Paul and Adrien,
I have nothing but the deepest respect for people who are willing to be sheriffs at Montrose, a thankless and hard job, no doubt. Losing Montrose would be a disaster, and obviously it would not take much.
Having said that, I believe there should be even clearer rules of engagement, as that seems to be the weakest link in the wise and necessary policy, unless I'm missing something. How far are you willing to go in your enforcement efforts? Cut the lines? Physically restrain someones? Something more? Or ask the life guard to call the cops? Please think about the thin red line from the legal standpoint, once you get carried away in a heat of a moment.
I, as anyone else who attended the fantastic pizza party at Mike's house last night, had an opportunity to listen to the other side of the story, as told by "the female" in question. I am not taking sides, mind you, just making some observations. The way the story was told, "the female" showed her IKO card to the life guard, and got his OK to ride. I am not saying that was true, I was not there - but if it was the case, might it perhaps explain some of her behavior?
Then - and again, I am not saying that was true, just entertaining with a certain horror a possibility that there was some merit to what she described - if indeed one of you guys was riding directly behind her, trying to kick her out of the board, that might qualify as an assault, and some enterprising attorney may even say, with a deadly weapon (the board). Willingness to fight felony charges should not be a prerequisite for this voluntary effort, I would think.
So perhaps stating clearly what happens to scofflaws is important, and so is engaging early people with more formal enforcement authority (starting with life guards)? What do you think?
Tom

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Re: Montrose 2014.

Post by adseguy » Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:50 am

Hey Tom,

Aww man, now I'm really pissed I missed Mike's pizza party. I'm always out of town for them :evil:. You bring up some valid points and I'll address them in a minute, but as a whole here two things are blatantly clear. Paul, myself, and others always approach new people on a regular basis. 95% of the time we either get the streamer for them or they give us an unhappy face, but, in the end, understand what's going on and leave their kite on the ground. A good example was right before her we let another new guy know about the system when he too was ready to lift off. He listened, we felt sorry, and all was well. I did not see the original interaction, but I approached when I saw some finger pointing and voices raised. She had her kite up and Paul was in the middle of telling her about the system and how she needs to follow it.

Paraphrased:

- "I showed my iko card to the life guards"
- "You still need the streamer though"
- "You guys can't tell me what to do"
- "You're right, we can't be the cops we'll call will" "Here if you have your IKO card, I'll get you one RIGHT NOW, we'll drop this whole debate"
- "I don't need to do anything"
- "We are not letting you go out there, this beach is too important for one person to counter the rules"

She starts to walk out towards the beach with kite in the sky and board in hand. Me or Paul block her and say "NO" I may have held her board to prevent her from moving along, I didn't want to touch her per say.

"Let me go"
"No, what you are doing is ILLEGAL and I'm willing to fix this right now for you FOR FREE, why aren't you taking this option"
"Let me go"

*Continues to walk out*

I take a look around and beach is clear. I pull her safety for her because she's clearly belligerent at this point. She's not good enough to know what to do when you are suddenly unhooked so the kite goes down. She starts yelling and screaming about us being horrible people and here's the part I almost guarantee she left out. SHE FUCKING HIT ME WITH THE BOARD. About 3 times she wailed that thing at me. No damage or anything besides a little bruised on my wrist where I blocked the boards edge. Upon a 4th thrust I ripped that fucker right out of her hands and tossed it like a javelin. I probably said something like:

"You're a fucking idiot to just assault the guy that WANTS to give you a free streamer to kite here"

Me and Paul walk away realizing she has to put all that gear back together now. I think someone then talked sense into her because a few minutes later she comes back to me and ask:

- "You give me streamer? I show you IKO card"
- "Alright, let's do this"

We proceed to walk up to my car so I can get her one and she just starts berating me. I just soak it in and don't say a word. Thing is, I understood she was mad and just wanted to kite, I would fore go all the anger, because in the end I just want to have fun, along with her and kite. In my mind I was thinking that this situation is minor in the grand scheme and getting a streamer would be the quickest resolution and we, one day, could laugh at this whole thing. She was still going off on me and I would barely respond as I would just focus on walking faster. Her friend was there just trying to calm her down in polish (sorry, if that's the wrong language, no offense meant), but she kept going. Right as we reach the cement steps I just say something like,

"Listen, I'm about to give you a FREE streamer so you and I can end this and just have fun today even after all this, even after you HIT ME, and no one wants you to kite. I DO, so keep saying shit to me, keep calling me names, because your chances are going way down on getting one"

We keep walking....she keeps going off on stuff

"Alright, I've given you enough chances to just stop it, just say one more god damn thing and I'm not getting you anything"

She stops talking as the guy friend tells her to just stop and be quiet......but she couldn't help herself......about 5 seconds later it was terribly obvious she called me some name her language. I turn around and say

"Bye"
"Wait"
"Nope, Bye"

and I run back to my kite to finish setting up after this 20 minute ordeal. She comes back down towards me with her ID and IKO card, but I had enough that day and she clearly wasn't getting my help now. I go kite and try to forget, but it was hard, I boost hard and go big and it felt good.

Here's the real kicker: About an hour later I see her kite in the air, in the water, and SHE IS KITING!!!! WITHOUT A STREAMER!!! WTFF :shock: :shock: I tear downwind to meet up with her. This is what sticks in my head now: she sees me and just laughs like a 14 year old would knowing they are getting away with something right in front of you. Unfortunately she doesn't understand that I am good enough to rip her own board off......while riding. I want her the fuck off the beach. She turns around to head back in and I make sure I'm 3 feet away behind her and her kite won't tack around. She gets to the beach, I grab her board from her. I actually started a tack back out with the board because I wanted to throw it on the other side of the pier where it would be lost forever, but a saner head prevailed and I headed back to the beach and go straight to the head lifeguard. I give it to her saying, "This kiter is not following the rules, does not have a streamer, and is being a menace to the beach. Please hold onto this for now and when she comes back to get it, you can give it back to her. Her name is Anna" They look at me with googly eyes, but in the end understood.

The rest of the day goes without further incident. She came up to me one last time at the end of the day and like a little child has a grin on her face and says something like,

"I had so much fun today, I'll see you on the beach next time and I'll have a streamer and if you cut my lines that I hear you like to do, I will kill you" Please note the absurd condescending tone in her voice.

I just nod and don't say a word. So that's where we stand. I hope she reads this at some point because here's the thing: I want her to kite. The 2 minutes I saw her in the water she seemed fine and under control, albeit a little too close for the first tack out. What happened that day will pass and although others on the beach wanted to ban you for life, I did not. You could have had a bad day, and a few nobodies coming up to you and essentially telling you to put everything down had put your guard up. Maybe we did come on too strong, maybe some aspects could have been dealt with better, but in the end you were in the wrong and we gave you many outs to fix this. If you are on the beach again, I hope you have a good time kiting and just try to realize that we aren't doing it to be against you, just against you not following the rules that everyone else follows. That's it. One day we can all laugh at this because, in the end, it won't matter what happened :) .

Tom, to get back to your overall point of how do we handle this. I think this is a decent example of what to do:

1.) Talk to the person
2.) Restrain movement - don't fight
3.) Call cops.

95% of the time 1 is fine, 2 is for the other 5% and 3 possibly should have been called on her. I let her know this IS an arrest-able offence. She wanted to call the cops when we weren't letting her out and Paul and I at the same moment said "DO IT!!" "You'll get arrested, don't you get what you are doing is illegal?" We knew we would easily win on that front. I think the topic of needing to know who enforces what is so rare that we usually will need to just skip the lifeguards anyway and go straight to the police. We haven't had that yet (from what I know) at Montrose and I would rather not raise any flags so I will gladly PERSONALLY take responsibility of cutting lines and such if necessary. I know what I would be doing is illegal, but it does solve one problem that I'm not willing to risk: beach access. Lines can be fixed, beach access might not. It's like a drunk driver, try to talk to them first (works 95% of the time) take their keys away if they still keep going, and finally restrain them if all else fails. It's illegal to restrain someone, but it's better than the flip side.

Oy, probably the longest post ever for me, but I think it's worth it. No harm to me personally and I hope she isn't afraid of me (probably not...she's a harty one). If you want to have a reasonable conversation I'm always up for it.
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Re: Montrose 2014.

Post by xwindsurf » Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:38 am

Wow, Adrien, wild, wild (mid)West! What a shame you could not it sort it out at Mike's over some Tyskie beer, and slices of the best pizzza west of Napoli.
I hope Anna gets her steamer, and will ride within her ability.
As I was reading NYTimes with my morning coffee, one more possible take on the story occurred to me, provoked by this interesting op-ed piece there: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/02/opini ... inion&_r=0
Namely, is there a possibility that you might have come through - I am sure completely unintentionally - as bullying male chauvinist pigs ;) ?
Tom

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Re: Montrose 2014.

Post by Kevin » Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:00 pm

Wow that is completely unacceptable behavior, deliberately breaking the rules after being clearly told not to do so is one thing but complete lack of cooperation is so disappointing. Not something you expect to see in our kiting community.

As a Montrose regular, Adrien and Paul you obviously have my full support. If it were me I would expect a sincere apology before expecting to be welcomed back at the beach.

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Re: Montrose 2014.

Post by WaWaZat » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:56 am

Tom, excellent way to bring up the other side of the story heard at the party... you're quite the diplomat. I wanted to do this myself but you beat me to the punch. Thanx for taking the time.... and also for the pizza kudos! :D It was my pleasure to host!

Adrien, WAY TO GO taking so much time presenting the details as you remember and manning up to your actions publicly! I know 1st hand the suckitude of having to ruin someone's day there. Policing our beloved beach can seem thankless in the moment but in the grand scheme of things, it is much appreciated. I also know what it's like to have to control our passion for safety and our beloved launch rights in the heat of some outlaw who refuses to respect the rules, why we have them and the people who busted ass to get it that way. It's easy to go overboard in the heat of the moment. I knew there must be something missing when I heard the story over the campfire 'cause it didn't sound like the Adrien I know... well except for the part about landing your kite on Anna's mid flight! :wink: Tom brings up some excellent points about liability from actions in the moment of our passion. So we all learn from these experiences. It is our duty as responsible, involved participants to remember we are there to reduce emergency services calls to which I believe the protocol is;
1. Talk
2. If necessarily, talk more
3. If all else fails ask lifeguard to call the captain

Now if it's a true emergency where someone might be hurt, then sure, police should be called but it would sure suck if one of our monitoring kiters had to have the police called on him for damaging property, harassing, or even God forbid causing a KiteMare. Adrien I know you know your own abilities...which I vouch are excellent... but you never know how the other kiter will react in the moment.

I agree with Paul, every single person who kites Montrose knows the rules. Some of the kiters I've approached have tried to play ignorant at 1st but upon further interrogation :) it always comes out, they know. It seems to come down to a lack of consideration and laziness to do as all others around here in this sport do and that is drive! It would be nice if everyone who flies a streamer not only made sure they fly theirs year-round, but remind the person who isn't flying one to attach theirs or explain they can't launch, if necessary. It would make monitoring our beach less thankless-feeling for all.

So at the end of the day, all will get together at the next kiter gathering, hug and toast over the fire pit. I don't need to speak for Anna 'cause she IS quite capable, but I'm sure she would oblige to such a toast. She is a great person, with a good sense of humor and a great kiter... held her own on a 7M this morn at the Wolf Lake Storm Bump Wind Extravaganza!! And Adrien... if you don't come to my next pizza party I'm cutting YOUR lines!...
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Re: Montrose 2014.

Post by zulutimer » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:12 pm

Tom,

I appreciate your shot at speaking up for the other side but in your usual fashion on posts, you do more to provoke or goad further comment than be constructive. As someone with a streamer I find it rather disingenuous for you to voice any support.

Sensationalizing the board confiscation into an assault is bullshit; the only assault that happened with that board was when its owner starting hitting Adrien with it.
Your suggestion that we're male chauvinist pigs is insulting, offensive and ignorant. The only sexism we're guilty of is our love for Lady Montrose.

As for your question about enforcement, thanks to this event we now have an additional and effective enforcement method confirmed with lifeguards; confiscation of equipment for the session. We have it good here. In Mallorca where Gus moved to, ANY violation of the swimming area, even incidental or floating in with a downed kite is a 300Euro fine and permanent confiscation of gear. Consider us very very lucky. So we may speak up but can remain hands off. Violators can deal directly with the popo.

Let's not further degrade this string of comments with more debate about the particulars of the day.

Enough said.

Paul
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Re: Montrose 2014.

Post by 4w7s » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:23 pm

jayzoos man, was she hot? i would have given her my streamer ...hahah...she should have at least gotten some beach cred just for being a female wanting to kite so bad... but seriously, there's got to be a better way to provide the streamer...people need their "drug" bruh...in a way ye can't blame them for being upset...but yeah rules are rules i guess. the other solution: go kite another spot...just sayin
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Re: Montrose 2014.

Post by xwindsurf » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:49 pm

Dear Paul,
I am sorry you generally don't like my posts but I guess I will have to live with it.
I believe both Adrien and Mike were much more careful readers of my comments than you were, and frankly, I am pretty shocked that you could say I called you a chauvinist pig, or that I "sensationalized the board confiscation." I know you as a very intelligent person so I am not sure what caused such a deaf ear, perhaps I was not clear enough, or perhaps the situation still feels too emotional.
I was talking about 1. possible consequences of well-meant enforcement actions (by the same token, the patient suing an emergency room doctor may be a scum but still can cost the doctor hundreds of thousands in attorney fees and insurance premiums) 2. The unavoidable aspect of male-female interactions, were the man speaks from the position of authority, and sometimes can be perceived as condescending, or worse, even if irrationally. In the country that invented gender gap, glass ceiling, and all these other euphemistically called ways to keep women down, there is no escaping of it, is there?
Peace
Tom

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Re: Montrose 2014.

Post by FullThrottle49 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:26 pm

Having watched this whole incident unfold I fully support Paul and Adrien!!! Everyone else who is chiming in this isnt a debate!! the rules are simple, FOLLOW THEM!! she was wrong and her behavior was completely out of line!! SHe needs to learn to show some respect and listen. If she had been even slightly reasonable she would've gotten her streamer and we all wouldn't be wasting our time on here. Also, she didnt seem to be staying upwind very well, part of being a responsible kiter at montrose is knowing if you have the right gear setup to stay up wind.... its not always a matter of skill, im a big guy, if im having trouble staying above buoys i either grab my race board or stop!

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Re: Montrose 2014.

Post by vinceg » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:19 am

Hi,

I new to the area for kitesurfing and I 'm confused now about the rule:
zulutimer said on Fri May 30, 2014 1:44 pm:
RULE: IKO Card AND Streamer required to ride at Montrose. PERIOD

I'm getting certified in a few weeks in the OBX at KittyHawKites (PASA school) and I would like to make sure that the PASA certification is still good as well for Montrose beach as it says on this page.

http://www.chicagokitesurfing.com/ridin ... trose.html
From the page: Montrose gets extremely crowded during the summer and you must have level 2 certification from PASA or level 3 IKO. See below for the rules.

I booked my training based on the info on that page month ago. Could you please confirm that this is still true? Or how can I get an equivalence if I need one.

Thank you

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Re: Montrose 2014.

Post by zulutimer » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:02 am

Hi Vince?

Yes, an equivalent PASA card works. It seems they faded into the sunset recently so we usually just talk about IKO. They were always very poor with subsequent communications and service so make sure you get everything squared away in person.

Contact me or Adrien at some point about a streamer.

Good luck and welcome to the group.

Paul
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Re: Montrose 2014.

Post by West » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:09 am

A gender, language, cultural and skill-level barrier is a lot to overcome!!!

Sure is a bummer that it went down that way!!! Once the rock gets rollin', it's hard to stop it going down hill; now the task becomes trying to roll the rock back up the mountain and putting it back in place....

There is a reason that Mike wore a referee shirt; one of his best attributes was his diplomacy; and even HIS patience was tested many, many times; so much so that he almost "threw in the towel" in a couple of instances. Diplomacy is a virtue!!!! It is a good thing that the lifeguards will be more involved in the enforcement chain in the future; a chasedown on the water with a kite is definitely not a good option...

In all honesty, as a kiter reading this, it is hard to comprehend this sequence of events that led to a kite flying encounter on the water; and I believe that is what Tom is attempting to point out....it is simply beyond bizarre.

I do not ride Montrose, but it has always been very apparent that most of the kiters stand by the wayside instead of standing up to help those who have taken on the "burden" of policing the scene....as more and more kiters in Chicago want to kite Montrose, it is going to be a continual battle to educate kiters and to gain support from all of the other kiters pumping up their kites: Paul and Adrian are gonna need the help!!!

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Re: Montrose 2014.

Post by vinceg » Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:48 pm

Hi Paul,

Thank you for the quick response and good advice. I'll make sure that I'll get all the material and I'll contact you for a streamer when I'm ready :)

Vince

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